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| 02:58:09 [AChes] | !pointer |
| 02:58:09 [Sacchi] | http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T2-58-9 |
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| 05:38:59 [Puyopuyo] | !pointer |
| 05:38:59 [Sacchi] | http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T5-38-59 |
| 05:48:20 [Puyopuyo] | Ian: Civ 5 had rather unbalanced and overpowered civs, moreso than 4. |
| 05:48:23 [Puyopuyo] | And has yet to balance them. |
| 06:31:48 [nathanbp] | finished wise man's fear for the 2nd time |
| 06:31:51 [nathanbp] | still amazing |
| 06:57:29 [Pipian] | Jesus |
| 06:57:39 [Pipian] | Spent Fuel pools are offscale low |
| 06:57:53 [Pipian] | These Japanese power people just can't keep it together |
| 06:59:13 [Puyopuyo] | More medicine for Nuklear Boy! |
| 06:59:17 [Puyopuyo] | Er, Nuclear. |
| 06:59:47 [Pipian] | I mean |
| 07:00:03 [Pipian] | They are literally now throwing around the idea of just encasing the damn things in concrete |
| 07:00:17 [Puyopuyo] | ...That won't fix the problem. |
| 07:01:17 [Pipian] | Where's the radioactive gas going to get to? |
| 07:01:51 [Puyopuyo] | Dunno. |
| 07:01:54 [Pipian] | In any case, here's a summary of information we don't have, if you still think TEPCO has control over current events: |
| 07:01:55 [Pipian] | 1. Any water temp or level information on Unit 4 storage pool for 4 days |
| 07:01:55 [Pipian] | 2. Any water temp or level information on Units 1-3 storage pools for 3 days |
| 07:01:55 [Pipian] | 3. Any water level or pressure level information on Unit 1 reactor for 1 day (this is the only one of the three that doesn't have suspected primary containment breech) |
| 07:02:07 [Puyopuyo] | Nah, I stopped thinking they did. |
| 07:02:18 [Puyopuyo] | Once I decided that they didn't have any idea what the hell was going on. |
| 07:17:00 [Puyopuyo] | I was under the impression that Unit 3 is doomed due to the MOX. |
| 07:17:07 [Puyopuyo] | Rather, the puddle of mox. |
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| 13:17:05 [AChes|work] | !pointer |
| 13:17:05 [Sacchi] | http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T13-17-5 |
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| 14:42:44 [nathanbp|work] | !pointer |
| 14:42:44 [Sacchi] | http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T14-42-44 |
| 14:44:26 [nathanbp|work] | I dunno seems fairly likely that if they get external power restored all the nuclear plant problems should go away |
| 14:45:02 [nathanbp|work] | if things aren't on fire then the water levels in the spent fuel powers have to at least still be above the rods? |
| 15:18:47 [AChes|work] | One thing I haven't heard explained well is what the time frame is for the fuel cooling off. If it is only decay heat that is left to deal with it should have come down by a couple of orders of magnitude in the last few days right? |
| 15:20:07 [AChes|work] | and yeah that is still a lot of energy but are they just screwed now that the decay will kind of level off? |
| 15:58:01 [nathanbp|work] | the way I saw it explained is that the control rods stop the chain reaction |
| 15:58:20 [nathanbp|work] | but the left over cesium and iodine take a while to decay |
| 15:58:26 [nathanbp|work] | and they never decay to zero |
| 15:58:34 [nathanbp|work] | so even the spent fuel rods need some constant cooling |
| 15:59:04 [nathanbp|work] | the base number is that the cool requirements drop to 7% of normal right away |
| 15:59:35 [AChes|work] | true but that decay should be fairly rapid at the beginning then slow down |
| 16:00:24 [nathanbp|work] | yeah |
| 16:00:29 [AChes|work] | i think i read that after 10 days it should be about .2% or maybe it was .02% normal |
| 16:01:17 [AChes|work] | it's .2 and a week |
| 16:01:35 [AChes|work] | so that's where we are and it's not going to get alot lower real fast |
| 16:02:30 [AChes|work] | I guess I was wondering how long they expect to leave the material in the reactors |
| 16:03:14 [AChes|work] | also the mundanity of the problems with nuclear accidents always surprises me |
| 16:03:37 [nathanbp|work] | what do you mean? |
| 16:04:23 [AChes|work] | well the problem is at some level that they cant lift seawater into the vessels, which seems like a pretty everyday problem |
| 16:05:27 [nathanbp|work] | true |
| 16:05:41 [AChes|work] | I know it's more complicated than that, it's just that the more exotic parts never seem to be the problem |
| 16:06:23 [nathanbp|work] | well hopefully they'll get the external power line connected today |
| 16:06:32 [AChes|work] | I used to know more about chernobyl and 3 mile island and I remember being struck by the same thing |
| 16:07:51 [AChes|work] | have you seen any estimates of how much power they need to disipate with the water, ie how much is .2% of normal |
| 16:08:30 [nathanbp|work] | no |
| 16:08:51 [nathanbp|work] | It doesn't seem like it should take very much to just run all the pipes |
| 16:08:58 [nathanbp|work] | *pumps |
| 16:10:06 [AChes|work] | that's not what i meant to say, I meant how much energy/sec is being generated by the fuel cooling off |
| 16:10:54 [nathanbp|work] | oh |
| 16:11:06 [nathanbp|work] | no clue |
| 16:11:13 [AChes|work] | but yeah I wonder what is holding things up, you would think that you could get alot of generators by saying, if you don;t get them here its going to meltdown |
| 16:11:21 [nathanbp|work] | don't seem to be a lot of details about how this all works |
| 16:11:29 [nathanbp|work] | like how are they getting water there now? |
| 16:11:52 [nathanbp|work] | the tsunami + earthquake wiped out all the roads |
| 16:11:55 [nathanbp|work] | is I think the problem |
| 16:13:06 [AChes|work] | my terrible estimate is that the damaged reactors are about 3.5GW and probably 30-40% effcient, so maybe 10gw normal and 200mw to dissipate, seems high |
| 16:13:22 [nathanbp|work] | and while the amount of power they need isn't that large, it's still some pretty huge diesel generators they need to replace |
| 16:13:34 [AChes|work] | yeah but helicopters cant be that hard to get, if you have that kind of priorty |
| 16:13:56 [AChes|work] | what i am mostly learning here is that I dont know whats going on |
| 16:13:57 [nathanbp|work] | they're too big to be carried by helicopter |
| 16:14:52 [AChes|work] | lots of little ones? firetrucks have pumps on them, i know they were doing that for a bit, trying to spray from the outside |
| 16:15:14 [AChes|work] | this stuff clearly wont work I jsut wonder why |
| 16:16:38 [nathanbp|work] | wow "They said they are rotating out workers once they reach "maximum lifetime exposure" of 100-250 mili-servients. Most workers are only staying for 24 hours before they are "retired" out and a fresh person brought in to replace them." |
| 16:26:26 [AChes|work] | looks like 200MW wan't too far off, 40 is probably closer, which would amount to 1200 tons of water per day boiled off |
| 16:26:36 [AChes|work] | according to wikipedia at least |
| 16:28:44 [AChes|work] | acctually the page is very good |
| 16:34:36 [nathanbp|work] | that's a lot of water |
| 16:34:52 [nathanbp|work] | although I think they don't boil it off? |
| 16:35:09 [nathanbp|work] | not sure if they can go back to the normal cooling procedures or not now |
| 16:35:46 [AChes|work] | I don't think it normally boils but at this point that's probably where it's going |
| 16:36:21 [AChes|work] | well actually it is a boiling water reactor, but that is a closed loop and there is alternative cooling |
| 16:39:45 [nathanbp|work] | well I guess normally it boils and is condensed afterwards |
| 16:39:52 [nathanbp|work] | instead of just boiling off like they're doing now |
| 18:00:01 [nathanbp|work] | http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/opinion/17azuma.html |
| 18:00:02 [Sacchi] | For a Change, Proud to Be Japanese - NYTimes.com |
| 18:04:23 [nathanbp|work] | (The author of that article is apparently the story creator for Fractale) |
| 18:12:44 [nathanbp|work] | http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11075/1132302-82.stm has some interesting details |
| 18:12:44 [Sacchi] | Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers |
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| 20:44:30 [nathanbp|work] | bah still 2.5 hours of work left :( |
| 20:44:34 [Puyopuyo] | Boo. |
| 20:44:42 [Puyopuyo] | GAH, PURRLOIN IS CRAP. WHAT A TERRIBLE CAT. |
| 20:59:54 [nathanbp|work] | ?? |
| 20:59:57 [nathanbp|work] | Pokemon? |
| 21:00:49 [Puyopuyo] | Pokemon |
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| 23:00:53 [Puyopuyo] | ....Ian, how can people play this? Goddamn Fire Monkey nearly lost me the battle. |
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