Serious discussion:TG and Rape

[Kether]

Like many of you, I presume, I read TG fiction on the net. Every so often I come across "Sexist guy pushes TGifying woman too far and she TGs him in order for him to get raped" and its some how treated as Just. Does that come off as odd to anyone else?

[Xia]

I try to avoid those, as well as the other stories that are so slanted in favor of females. I deal with enough of the feminist perspective for my classes to have to trudge through the ultra feminist TG stories

[Kether]

I try to avoid those, as well as the other stories that are so slanted in favor of females. I deal with enough of the feminist perspective for my classes to have to trudge through the ultra feminist TG stories

Its more the idea that "rape is justfied" that gets to me.

[Miku-chan]

It has always bothered me...The end justifies the means is one of those things I avoid in my writing. There are some who say it is to inocent and too black and white, but that is one line I have a problem with

[Mitera Nikkou]

"All you need is love," is my motto. Rape for any reason is uncalled for. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that. Sex is a personal experience and shouldn't be violated. It's bad enough regarding the occurrence and amount of unsatisfactory sex between two people who supposedly care about each other, since it's supposed to be a mutually gratifying experience.

[Kether]

It has always bothered me...The end justifies the means is one of those things I avoid in my writing. There are some who say it is to inocent and too black and white, but that is one line I have a problem with

How does "rape" as an end justfy the means?

[Xia]

Its more the idea that "rape is justfied" that gets to me.

That's what I mean. its the ultra-feminist perspective. Because its against a male (or former male) then all is acceptable, regardless of what the male has done. And I've seen stories that run the gambit, from serial rapist men who are transformed and then raped (hard to argue against that justification, sort of), to just random guys whose only misfortune was to be a guy, that being enough to justify any and all treatment

[Kether]

Its more the idea that "rape is justfied" that gets to me.

That's what I mean. its the ultra-feminist perspective. Because its against a male (or former male) then all is acceptable, regardless of what the male has done. And I've seen stories that run the gambit, from serial rapist men who are transformed and then raped (hard to argue against that justification, sort of), to just random guys whose only misfortune was to be a guy, that being enough to justify any and all treatment

I can more see serial rapist become sextoy(I can at least see the justification) but the on I saw most recently that kicked this off was "Guy is too pushy not taking no for an answer and get gangbanged for his trouble"

[Xia]

Yeah. there are many of those.

Remember, a large underlying thought process for TF/TG in general is that all things are better female, to whit, girls are more right than guys on all things. You don't need to provide a concrete justification because bam, you're on the girls' side

[Mitera Nikkou]

Well, that's to be expected. Self-interest and bias, and all that. At least, I wouldn't want to become a girl if I thought it was less than equal to what I already was. Of course, some authors are sneaky and, while they may steer a story to where the male-turned-female is more happy as a girl, the initial thoughts of the male protagonist is that females are inferior.

But, eh.

I can more see serial rapist become sextoy(I can at least see the justification) but the on I saw most recently that kicked this off was "Guy is too pushy not taking no for an answer and get gangbanged for his trouble"

For all the amount of Christians out there, I wonder why there is a general lack of "an eye for an eye." If taken that way, at least I can understand why a rape victim would have a man transformed into a woman and raped in revenge. But it's so often about these small, inconsequential things, if anything at all. ;/

[Xia]

Well, that's to be expected. Self-interest and bias, and all that. At least, I wouldn't want to become a girl if I thought it was less than equal to what I already was. Of course, some authors are sneaky and, while they may steer a story to where the male-turned-female is more happy as a girl, the initial thoughts of the male protagonist is that females are inferior.

But, eh.

It's a little past self interest and bias, after all, since the premise isn't one of equality, but rather of females are better than males, period.

[Mitera Nikkou]

But it has to start from somewhere. Personally, I didn't think nothing of it in those terms until I realized that I wanted to be female, not male. Initially, I thought that, because of that, they must be better, since I didn't like being male. Of course, I eventually thought better of it, since a matter of opinion, perspective and self-interest has no real value in determining something's worth, beyond one's own wants, needs and/or desires.

[Miku-chan]

That is why I said no justification is served by petty little revenge plots like that

[Xia]

I think on a personal level, a lot of the fans of TF/TG fiction do think along those lines (though you'd have to prove it to me). Its the state of fiction as a whole we're talking about though

[Mitera Nikkou]

Well, fiction itself lends plenty of space for doing whatever you want. I mean, why do you need justification if it's not real, and possibly intended to make someone's keyboard sticky? People are willing to say or do a lot of things if they think that there are no consequences, or if they think that they can avoid any consequences that may exist. Heck, in some cases, they may write a rape scene because they're frustrated, at not being female and wanting to have sex as such. It's a really complicated environment, but, in reality, it'd be a different story. So long as it's not practiced in the real world, it's technically alright, nothing more than harmless expression and/or entertainment.