Mitera Nikkou wrote:if you can't take the basis for your beliefs seriously, then what can you take seriously?
That is the part that kinda just sent me into an irate mood. It felt like it was an attack on me and my beliefs. And now that I am not in anywhere near of an irate mood and thinking more rationally, let me try and see to your first post and respond to it in a more...hm, well, I can't think of the word...rational manner?
Mitera Nikkou wrote:That's not how it works. Certainly not for all or none of the many Christian branches that are out there. Many don't separate the Hebrew Scriptures from the New Testament, in part because they can't: for, without it, there would be no basis for Christianity. Furthermore, there's a logical problem with picking and choosing arbitrarily, to suit one's own needs. After all, God himself, in Leviticus, said that an "eye for an eye" was what was to be done. If God is said to be wrong with any one thing, then what else could He possibly be wrong about, or of what we believe? (A fallacious argument, I'm sure, but it begs the question.) Or, aren't we to assume that he isn't capable of being wrong? And that's the problem with that line of thinking: if you can't take the basis for your beliefs seriously, then what can you take seriously? That's also an issue when it comes to the topic of rape in TG fiction, and a part of what I was saying before. If a part of their basis for writing it is because it's fiction, and thus not real, they can justify anything, if they wanted to. Any writer, including those who wrote the scriptures in the bible.
Alright. Well, the thing is, my church is a church that puts more of an emphasis on the teachings of the New Testament rather than on the Old Testament. Does this mean that we completely disregard the teachings of the Old Testament? No. In no way, shape, or form. However, does it mean that we take things more to heart that is taught in the New Testament than in the Old? Yes. In my point of view, which...hell, you could probably pick a dozen Christians and get a different answer than from me, but the teachings of Jesus to where we should love one another, our families, our friends, and even our enemies, regardless. However, not in the love-love, but not to hate them or anything. This is probably one of the few contradictions from between the New Testament and the Old. However, I could just be misinterpreting the scripture and such, which can happen with me, since I haven't been going to church as regularly that I did when I didn't understand, or have the ability to understand what was being talked about. So, despite being a Christian, I could be TOTALLY wrong on this, and, frankly, THAT IS POSSIBLE...since despite being a Christan, I AM NOT PERFECT...NO ONE IS...but God, or in the case of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.
Now, onto the rape being justified? In my view, rape isn't justified in ANY way, shape, or form. Now in the case of rape in TG fiction where the rapist is TGed and then done so, well, you could say he gets his just desserts, but that does not mean that it is justified. Maybe if you go by the Golden Rule of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" it could possibly be. Maybe even by the 'eye for an eye', as well, as I have yet to even bother picking up my Bible at this point and looking at that scripture. But to say that nothing in the New Testament perhaps can contradict or overrule something in the Old Testament is, well...I'm not quite sure what you're thinking. Do we have to have burnt offerings, sacrifices, or any such things as those in the Old Testament? No, because teachings in the New Testament show that we are no longer required to do such things to have worship with God and such.
Mitera Nikkou wrote:I don't have to, since you're both in agreement with me and expounded a bit more on what I was saying.
Heck, just saying that something like this ruffled your feathers, and thus taking it personally, proves a part of the point that I was making. It's because of such reactions that we have these problems when different people from different backgrounds and experiences argue about, or simply share their opinion about, what's considered right or wrong, when the concept of right and wrong is relative only to the basis used. Taking things personally, when it's not intended to be, is just creating an issue that isn't there. It's like taking fiction seriously, which is pointless. Which goes without saying: I have nothing to do with the fact that there are parallels to draw between how Christianity is interpreted in many ways, and how this subject can be for the same reason. If that's taken the wrong way, it's not my problem.
Now I get to see MSF's tolerance for civil discussions of serious topics. I'm prepared to be disappointed.
Now, see, the reason why I went off on what you said was what was copied and written above. That one line sent me off and the rest just kinda helped it all cascade into a misunderstanding. I've come into a misunderstanding with someone else before on here over something, so it was probably bound to happen once again. The thing is, people have different levels on what they take personally. Say, you could give me a TF on IRC and, because I have little-to-no confidence in my TF skills, am in a rut in the creativity department, and such and don't TF you back and you could possibly take that personally. The thing is, it's best to have a gentler approach to a discussion than one where it feels like you bash someone's head in, as well as their beliefs, even if it is just one sentence, line, or word that can just push things over the edge. Although, I probably didn't do too much better on that point, myself...but, as I said, I'm not perfect.
And yes, Christianity can be interpreted in so many different ways it isn't funny...it's downright ridiculous. So, as I said, you can ask a...let's see...I'm a Southern Baptist...or belong to a Southern Baptist church, I should say...you could ask a person who attends a Methodist church and probably get a different answer than me. Do I say they're wrong and I'm right? No...it's just the way that they belief, and I respect them for that, along with however they live their lives differently than me. Oh, and another thing that I'm different than with even my own church in...gambling in the lottery. Many people in my church, especially my pastor, don't condone gambling in any form nor would accept money won from such. However, I take a gamble in the lottery from time-to-time and don't really even give it a second thought, despite what others in my very own church believe. However, that's another subject entirely.
The point is, I could be right. I could be wrong. Who the hell knows? Maybe a preacher or a priest...but, honestly, do we have one here? Highly unlikely. I don't understand everything, probably never will...but my take on it is that I highly doubt many Christians would justify rape in any way, shape, or form, regardless of whether or not the person raped someone else first. However, does that not mean that we might not think that the person might 'deserve' it? There's a difference between justification and someone getting their 'just desserts', which can be misconstrued as being the same. The thing is, as Christians, we're human, and those of us that are truly Christian are tempted probably even more than non-Christians...we can slip up...we can make mistakes...and even in a case like this, our judgment can be clouded and we may say something, but not truly mean it deep down and such. Am I saying that a Christian may not try and justify the rape in a TG fiction by using the 'eye for an eye'? No, not really. More than likely, at least one has. However, did that person truly mean for it to be that way, does that person truly understand what they're talking about, and etc?
Maybe...maybe not. Despite the subject, in this case, there can be so many uncertainties it is kind of odd that religion, and something that can be taken in more than one way, is brought up in something where an answer is searched for.
I could be right, but more than likely I'm 100% wrong. Take this how you will. However, the subject has tired me out...and I honestly don't want any part of it. It's a touchy subject for me, and one I rarely ever jump into a discussion upon, for many reasons.
~Fin.