The Haven...It lives...it lives!

[Ninian]

I haven't laughed as much in the past weeks. Anyway, I don't think you are the first creator whose creation escaped and leads a completely independant life from its creator.

Can I call you Nina Frankenstein ?

This is kind of my last attempt to reel it in somewhat, and I'm actually pleased with how I approached it. I don't think I could have wrote something like the above back in "the day". The Scientology reference was kind of a low blow, but the analogy is accurate enough that I felt if I didn't say it someone else might.

If my sentiments fall on deaf ears this time, I'll know to just move on with my life. I did my best to communicate, so I should turn my focus to Aeaea.

[Sophia Anieri]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Eirien didn't found MSF. She was responsible for the forums since Lady Sakura,who founded the current site, isn't a programmer and so had to link to free forums offsite. Eirien also took the site over when Sakura-dono left. (There was also a prior site at magicalsailorfuku.com, founded by Yumi, to which Sakura intended this as successor site, but you'd have to ask one of the true veterans about that.)

Anyway, the suggestion about expanding the spirituality is a good one, but I also think that those of us who identify as Aeternalae have already been expanding the concept for quite some time. Millie's been one of the strongest new voices recently. It's not so much about limiting ourselves as using the Aeternalae concept as a stepping stone to new horizons.

Now back a step, as there was one person who, quite reasonably, asked what all this is about. As Xia-sama said, we, Aeternalae, are a bit of a subculture of MSF. The roots came from Nina's stories where an all-woman race of spirit-beings, the Aeternalae, would use their transformative Touch to transform entire populations. The Touch was said to be extremely healing and psychologicaly liberating, and there were hints in the stories that it was actually possible for real. (Those hints are what drew me to MSF in the first place.)

When I got here, there were only a handful of board members calling themselves Aeternalae, and the most active was Nina herself. It was a bit unclear how real the "Aeternalae" were. Nina certainly regarded them as fiction, but she also posted about a woman, Leena, who had appeared in her dreams and given her the Touch. At the time I took ist all very seriously, as did a few other forum members, both those who liked the idea and those who felt threatened by it.

Looking back on it, it all seems quite superstitious, except for one thing: When I finally got over my fear and asked for the Touch, I felt transformed. Call it a placebo or whatever you like -- it felt like the psychological pain built up over a lifetime was dissolving away. The feeling of wholeness and partial euphoria didn't exactly last, but to this day I feel different. Of course, a feeling alone isn't enough to prove anything. Nor was my own sense that I could feel the psychic energy that had been passed to me, both within myself and within others, anything I could offer as persuasive evidence. Nina came to the conclusion that we were imagining it all and disavowed the whole thing. I think that something happened, but try to keep an open mind on whether it was what all the rest of us thought it was.

In the end, all any of us can talk about is what we've personally experienced. Hopefully this all doesn't muddy the waters any further. ^^;

[Ninian]

Nor was my own sense that I could feel the psychic energy that had been passed to me, both within myself and within others, anything I could offer as persuasive evidence. Nina came to the conclusion that we were imagining it all and disavowed the whole thing. I think that something happened, but try to keep an open mind on whether it was what all the rest of us thought it was.

That's not exactly accurate. I fully believe you all had a spiritual experience. I fully believe I'm a spiritual being, capable of causing such a domino effect. If anything's changed, it's my willingness to even admit that. If I was denying anything, it was my capacity for writing and sharing things that can cause epiphanies and the responsibility that comes with that.

I just don't think the original writings are very good, and I don't think they do justice for the experience you're talking about.

It's not so much about limiting ourselves as using the Aeternalae concept as a stepping stone to new horizons.

THAT I'm totally on board with. It doesn't matter what we call it, or what story is attributed to it, what matters is that it's a Good Thing to want people to be psychologically healed or inspired.

[Musashi]

It's been interesting seeing it become an active thing again. I've considered resuming work on the Ewigilen, but I've been reluctant to do it. I don't know that I'm exactly the best qualified, since I don't have a spiritual belief in it. To me it's more of an interesting story/RP idea.

Though I'm sure some people know the Eternals used to piss me the hell off. XP Back in the day, I felt like it came off as very "Girls are the best! Everyone has to be a girl! All boys must be destroyed!" and I couldn't understand how anyone could support that in a serious, spiritual way. I still can't, since it goes against strong beliefs of my own. I mean, supporting it in stories and RPs is one thing, but to REALLY believe it... hrmmm. :/ But over time, that aspect of it seemed to mellow out.

And I think I'm a little more mellow too. I THINK. I CAN'T REALLY BE SURE. *Twitchfoam*

[Xia]

because the foaming at the mouth is a good indication of mellowness :o

*dangles keys over Musa's head to CALM THE TWITCHING KITTY*

[Ninian]

Though I'm sure some people know the Eternals used to piss me the hell off. XP Back in the day, I felt like it came off as very "Girls are the best! Everyone has to be a girl! All boys must be destroyed!" and I couldn't understand how anyone could support that in a serious, spiritual way. I still can't, since it goes against strong beliefs of my own. I mean, supporting it in stories and RPs is one thing, but to REALLY believe it... hrmmm. :/ But over time, that aspect of it seemed to mellow out.

There's a lot I would write differently. For example, I'd probably make the Aeternalae more angelic or celestial in nature, and their lust to convert being quite similar to the sort of zeal that you might see out of a highly religious person. That seems a bit more justified, that they're just too excitable, and that some of the "rawr let's destroy all the boys!" ones are those who follow that sort of lust to its natural conclusion, creating a divide. Sort of like the Camarilla and Sabbat in the Vampire White Wolf PnP games. I probably would have also tried to put more emphasis on the idea that the Aeternalae aren't "girls" -- they're something more than human. Emphasize a bit more that girls/women are just as much hairy bags of sewage as men, despite what media would have us believe. If over-idealized women are going to be what's fantasized over, let's not pretend they're human, because that makes life harder for "real" women.

The characters in my current setting (Aeaea) are pretty conversion-happy too, but they don't invade people or force it on people who are just minding their own business. They don't typically even have the power to, when outside of their home. It's a nice loophole that you're not going to be forcibly made a pretty pretty girl unless you're trespassing. Though I do intend for quite a few "accidental" trespassers... Think Spirited Away, or for that matter, the real Aeaea.


(EDIT: Just want to say I'm not disagreeing with the assertion that the gendercide theme is problematic. However it is rather exciting to experience, and the taboo and amoral nature of the excitement is why I originally associated Aeternalae with demons)

[Xia]

the exciting part only comes to play, I believe, if people are for what is behind it. Its not really exciting being on the opposite end of people who push gendercide, purposefully or not.

From an outsiders perspective, its rather easy to see why there was such a big deal. they seemed from all angles to be completely antagonistic to all things not them, etc, and it was almost encouraged to behave like that, dismissing all that was against them. Exciting isn't the word for outsiders, it always seemed that if you weren't one of them and didn't want to become one of them, they were designed to make sure you were against them completely.

and I'm not sure changing it from lust to zeal would be any sort of betterment, as it adding religious justification just sounds like a bad idea all over.

[Ninian]

the exciting part only comes to play, I believe, if people are for what is behind it. Its not really exciting being on the opposite end of people who push gendercide, purposefully or not.

From an outsiders perspective, its rather easy to see why there was such a big deal. they seemed from all angles to be completely antagonistic to all things not them, etc, and it was almost encouraged to behave like that, dismissing all that was against them. Exciting isn't the word for outsiders, it always seemed that if you weren't one of them and didn't want to become one of them, they were designed to make sure you were against them completely.

and I'm not sure changing it from lust to zeal would be any sort of betterment, as it adding religious justification just sounds like a bad idea all over.

I want to go on record in saying that by calling it "exciting", I wasn't implying a desire to justify the core theme. I would say that rape is rather equally "exciting" if you're the rapist, and I wouldn't argue for a second that what they do isn't a form of rape on a massive scale. Remember what I said about the original intent of a race of converting girls being a sort of sensual horror story. I wouldn't argue that the warm fuzzy feeling part wasn't a justification when I originally wrote it back in the day (based on my spirituality), but I do think that does make the conflict regarding the race more interesting. I also liked one of the core conflicts -- if the race is superior to humans, and can elevate humans who are doing things to make each other suffer, couldn't it be considered immoral for them to not act? Much in the same way an adult would be immoral if she didn't immediately intervene seeing a random child playing with downed power lines. I'd say of all the crap I wrote, that particular moral quandary was a gem.

The religious aspect comes from this being an interesting parallel to the motives of Christianity or other moral guardians who justify their attempts at usurping control of society. I do think the Aeternalae in their current form have some resemblance to that, for better or worse. I wish the Aeternalae fandom as it exists right now could have a more neutral perspective on the race's behavior, even if they would personally love being a victim of the cutepocalypse. I do think Aeternalae -- as flawed as they are -- fill a spiritual niche for them that isn't getting otherwise fulfilled though, and it's worth looking into to find out how it can be better done.

[Mitera Nikkou]

I always thought that the Aeternalae were fairly diverse, and couldn't be bunched together on the same chopping block. They all had the same drive to change ningen into more of their own, but the reasons and means were different. On one side a group could express their nature by being saint-like and helpful, to rid people of all sorts of negative baggage; while, on the opposite end, there could be a group that was bloodthirsty and enjoyed mindscrewing inferior but sentient gelatinous meat. And then there was everything in between.

I dunno. I just didn't see any narrow paths that I had to follow. That's why, despite being an Eternal, I made friends with the biggest proponents that were against them, at the time, when it was typically a matter of contention with other Aeternalae. I even reached out to Musa, to show that we're not all the same. In the end, it came down to whether a gun was inherently bad, or if its nature was determined by its user. I don't think that Aeternalae are good or bad, if only because there's no such thing as a right or wrong that isn't relative to one's own perspective.

In that way, I figured that everyone could have their cake and eat it, too. Of course, I was mostly into it for the "family" aspect, though that blew up in my face about as badly as it was possible to, for someone like me. ;/

[Ninian]

I always thought that the Aeternalae were fairly diverse, and couldn't be bunched together on the same chopping block. They all had the same drive to change ningen into more of their own, but the reasons and means were different. On one side a group could express their nature by being saint-like and helpful, to rid people of all sorts of negative baggage; while, on the opposite end, there could be a group that was bloodthirsty and enjoyed mindscrewing inferior but sentient gelatinous meat. And then there was everything in between.

They're basically psychic vampires, when you get down to it, or derived from the vampire model. Right down to "kill the head vampire, get your friends back". I was in denial about it because I thought vampires lame, and thus fell into a lot of pitfalls that vampires had already addressed. If I had gotten off my high horse and admitted what was inspiring to me and tried learning instead of opening my big mouth so much, maybe we wouldn't be in this whole mess. Vampires, when written well, have much of the same depth of character you describe.

I dunno. I just didn't see any narrow paths that I had to follow. That's why, despite being an Eternal, I made friends with the biggest proponents that were against them, at the time, when it was typically a matter of contention with other Aeternalae. I even reached out to Musa, to show that we're not all the same. In the end, it came down to whether a gun was inherently bad, or if its nature was determined by its user. I don't think that Aeternalae are good or bad, if only because there's no such thing as a right or wrong that isn't relative to one's own perspective.

That's why my point the whole setting needs a rewrite or re-imagining from the ground up. I think we could agree that this would be better than needing to constantly make corrections, or even outright contradict the original or earlier material (which overpowers them beyond being interesting, and often justifies or even glorifies mass rape instead of condemning it). I don't blame the people for misunderstanding the core themes -- I blame the core themes for being presented and written badly and needing outside parties to justify them. The burden of understanding is just as much on the communicator as it is the listener.

[Millinescence]

O_____O
Alot has happened since my last post...
You all make very interesting points about the Aeternalae in general and it's hard to know where to start...

By all means, enjoy it, but I really wish there were certain things on the wiki (like anything related to Leena or myself) removed, and if I had my way a lot of the unnecessary details would be removed so stories could focus on the right parts. And finally, I think people deserve better, and I'd like to provide if I can.

As the new keeper of the tomes, I wasn't sure weather or not to remove you and Leena from the Wiki, for I wasn't sure whether or not you have truly bowed out of the community. And I was quite disappointed when Kerina linked me to a blog you made that basically says that you were going to demystify the Aeternalae and take away the concepts such as the Touch and Anina/Arivida that have made the family aspect of the community shine since it's inception. I for one don't want that aspect gone. It would totally kill what we're about IMO.
I guess I just need to understand things more. Maybe that's not what you meant in that blog, I don't know. I would like it if you could clarify that.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Eirien didn't found MSF. She was responsible for the forums since Lady Sakura,who founded the current site, isn't a programmer and so had to link to free forums offsite. Eirien also took the site over when Sakura-dono left. (There was also a prior site at magicalsailorfuku.com, founded by Yumi, to which Sakura intended this as successor site, but you'd have to ask one of the true veterans about that.)

Huh? Then who has the software for HoA? @.@
Katie/Zilla tells me that we need access to it for the needed improvements I stated earlier.

Anyway, the suggestion about expanding the spirituality is a good one, but I also think that those of us who identify as Aeternalae have already been expanding the concept for quite some time. Millie's been one of the strongest new voices recently. It's not so much about limiting ourselves as using the Aeternalae concept as a stepping stone to new horizons.

And I totally agree with that! I want what's best for the Aeternalae as a community. That's why I'm so strong-voiced as you say, Sophia. I try to speak out in situations where I think no one else would. I want to get things done, I want to make things better for all of us who consider themselves apart of the Aeternalae. *nods sagely*

Nor was my own sense that I could feel the psychic energy that had been passed to me, both within myself and within others, anything I could offer as persuasive evidence. Nina came to the conclusion that we were imagining it all and disavowed the whole thing. I think that something happened, but try to keep an open mind on whether it was what all the rest of us thought it was.

That's not exactly accurate. I fully believe you all had a spiritual experience. I fully believe I'm a spiritual being, capable of causing such a domino effect. If anything's changed, it's my willingness to even admit that. If I was denying anything, it was my capacity for writing and sharing things that can cause epiphanies and the responsibility that comes with that.

I just don't think the original writings are very good, and I don't think they do justice for the experience you're talking about.

I guess I can see where you're coming from with that. It is quite hard to explain the Touch other than the feelings that Sophia had described. It's a very profound experience (at least to me and the other Aeternal Sisters it is).

I dunno. I just didn't see any narrow paths that I had to follow. That's why, despite being an Eternal, I made friends with the biggest proponents that were against them, at the time, when it was typically a matter of contention with other Aeternalae. I even reached out to Musa, to show that we're not all the same. In the end, it came down to whether a gun was inherently bad, or if its nature was determined by its user. I don't think that Aeternalae are good or bad, if only because there's no such thing as a right or wrong that isn't relative to one's own perspective.

I totally agree on this. Not all Aeternalae are the same, there are good Aeternals, and there are bad. They can't be painted with the same brush. Me, I guess in some ways, I'm sort of the laid back, neutral Aeternal. And that's probably one thing that Nikkou and I have in common. *shrugs, doesn't know if that made sense* ^^;

[Musashi]

There is an excitement to horror stories. I can reasonably tolerate even the male-eradicating aspect of Eternals when it's presented as a piece of horror fiction, or something like it. It may not be my usual cup of tea, but it doesn't bother me quite so much. I've been participating in an Ovalisk RP because it's kind of like cute-horror, which is fun.

I think it's possible to enjoy something that you don't necessarily agree with normally. For example, if I had the ideas and motivation to do it, I'm sure I could come up with some bunch of evil mass-converting beings who obliterate everything in their path and turn all girls into pretty boys. My "bad side" would enjoy that. Everyone has some evil in them. I mean, I was playing Red Dead Redemption and went around randomly shooting passersby and found it very entertaining. Would I ever do that in reality, or condone someone else doing it? Hell no. Fantasy is fantasy.

I guess that's what originally scared me about the whole Eternal thing. It went from being someone's fictional creation to a seriously believed religion. And a religion focused on female superiority, eradication of all men, and total idealization of women bothered me a lot, and to see friends of mine being drawn into it freaked me out. It felt like it went from people enjoying a fantasy to seriously believing in those ideals.
But yeah, there were people like Nikkou who obviously weren't like that, which helped. But when I did try to find out more about what was actually believed, it seemed like I could never get a straight answer, it was different for everyone, so I remained somewhat suspicious.
Well, what I'm hoping is that this can shed some light on how I acted back then, because I know there were times where I seriously flipped sh**. I was scared of my friends being taken from me and turned into a bunch of Feminazis, basically. And, my own gender issues being particularly bad back then, the Eternals felt somehow like an attack on a part of myself and I found the whole concept threatening, thus I tended to get very defensive.

BUT ANYWAYZ. This was years ago, and it looks like things have been changing. Change is good! We should keep going with that.

And X-kun, it'll take a loooot more than keys to calm me down. XP *Chomps onto X's arm and dangles*

[Mitera Nikkou]

Silly Musa. But, at least those issues never went unresolved. The absence of resolution is bothersome. ;/

I totally agree on this. Not all Aeternalae are the same, there are good Aeternals, and there are bad. They can't be painted with the same brush. Me, I guess in some ways, I'm sort of the laid back, neutral Aeternal. And that's probably one thing that Nikkou and I have in common. *shrugs, doesn't know if that made sense* ^^;

Well, when I was all Eternal (there's a boring story and explanation to that, but it's irrelevant to the current subject matter), I was everything but laid back. Nina had to tell me to cool my jets because of how many anina I'd accumulated, and so quickly. Although it wasn't really due to what I was doing, since, of the thirty (give or take one or two) anina I ultimately had, only about a half dozen of them I sought out intentionally. The others, for one reason or another, just got drawn to me, somehow. All I could do for Nina was suggest to those that came to me to consider someone else, but I think that only worked once. ;/

Neutral, though? I guess. Man, it was crazy back then, with a few particular Eternals and anti-Eternals going at it, one Eternal group against another Eternal group, and even a group of soon-to-be Eternals (my bad? XD) who thought that Leena, through Nina, would bring about the Apocalypse. I was all up in that, mediating here, making friends there, or simply trying to figure out what in the world was going on. *Shakes head*

You know, speaking of the experience of being Touched, it wasn't common, back in the day, for anyone to feel anything when they were Touched. At one point I began to ask around, and only a handful of people said that they had felt something. It became a regular question after I would Touch someone, and I got more disappointed responses than not, though I assured them that feeling something wasn't necessary. I'm still not sure about that, but I figure it's safe to say that some people are more sensitive to such subtle things, as in non-physical things, than others. I know I am, because of previous supernatural experiences (or, at least, I don't think I'm crazy ;p), and I was affected by the Touch in a way that I could feel. In fact, the sensations came and went for nearly a year, and it probably wouldn't have stopped if I hadn't made some effort to stop it. I never did understand it, or why it never lingered with anyone else that I'd come across... I suppose it's just one of those mysteries.

[Musashi]

SILLY

YOU'RE CALLING ME SILLY?

WHAT

SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THIS *Bunny-kicks X's arm. Scratchscratchscratch!*

[Ninian]

As the new keeper of the tomes, I wasn't sure weather or not to remove you and Leena from the Wiki, for I wasn't sure whether or not you have truly bowed out of the community. And I was quite disappointed when Kerina linked me to a blog you made that basically says that you were going to demystify the Aeternalae and take away the concepts such as the Touch and Anina/Arivida that have made the family aspect of the community shine since it's inception. I for one don't want that aspect gone. It would totally kill what we're about IMO.
I guess I just need to understand things more. Maybe that's not what you meant in that blog, I don't know. I would like it if you could clarify that.

I think a lot of the technical details are fun. This includes Influence and just basically every mechanic involving the Touch. But I feel mystifying details that aren't directly adding to the Aeternalae storyline need to be either rewritten or omitted, as well as weird or abstract concepts that might revulse or confuse. For example, I would probably remove the Alphariginae as a concept straight out. The concept is never explored in a story, and I'm not sure the race is as interested in their own origins as much as others might be. Likewise I might write the Three Realms concept less as hard facts and more like a shared belief Aeternalae have about the outlook of the universe. I'd probably also remove "real" individuals from a required fiction reading list, making them more like userpages -- otherwise people will think the community has no touch (HAH!) on reality whatsoever. I'd probably also remove all reference to "anime", and more strongly imply they're anime girls rather than make an outright distinction.

This list goes on.


Oh, and their name. That's the biggest mystery or misunderstanding of all. Due to how "Ae" as a letter is pronounced -- basically a hard "eee" sound -- I doubt few people even know that the name is a homophone for "eternally". As in, that's how long you're gonna be like that. I probably should have also called Anina "Anaena" or Arivida "Araevida" if I was going to keep with that theme, though it might be a language fetish by that point. As you might guess, Aeaea is also pronounced "ee-ee-ah". Yeah, in case anyone was curious.

And I totally agree with that! I want what's best for the Aeternalae as a community. That's why I'm so strong-voiced as you say, Sophia. I try to speak out in situations where I think no one else would. I want to get things done, I want to make things better for all of us who consider themselves apart of the Aeternalae. *nods sagely*

A major obstacle for you is that it's like founding a spirituality or outlook based on an alien invader B-movie. Again, the horror angle. It'd be easier to write something from the top with the spiritual feelings or outlooks in mind than it would be to constantly have people on staff 24/7 to make corrections or interpretations to something that's becoming increasingly top-heavy. To drag out ZUN for a minute -- and get used to me doing that a lot in the future, he succeeded with writing a predatory more-than-human all-girl world -- it's part of why Touhou needed a big reboot going into the Windows games, as the characters were too shallow and sinister to actually write a setting (Gensokyo) with them. I'm not saying that's the only reason, I can cite legal stuff too, but I can totally get that from a writing perspective.

I guess I can see where you're coming from with that. It is quite hard to explain the Touch other than the feelings that Sophia had described. It's a very profound experience (at least to me and the other Aeternal Sisters it is).

The "no, it's not just a story, it's for REALZ and it's happening on mah internet!" Touch has quite a few easily explained logical elements for why it's a profound experience. Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way by saying it, but I might as well. It's basically a cocktail of a bunch of sentiments that is calibrated to bring comfort to an MtF transgendered person in particular, with the sort of force of "now I'm reinvented" that is common to born again Christians, or basically anyone who needed a personal excuse to start a second lease on life. Also being told you're beautiful and you don't need to feel bad about it by an outside party is just a good way to trigger waves of relief in someone. There is also a "security" element in being told that you'll be beautiful eternally (see what I did there?) and that you're not alone and so on. The human heart melts if all the right keys are pushed, it's why music works on people as well as it does.

If you want another example of how I think the Aeternalae could be better written, I'd have it so the Touch actually changes a lot less about a person than it ever did in any story. I'd argue the less it changes, the more interesting the final product. Let's take an example of how it works right now -- imagine a big bad ogre was Touched. He would probably be reduced into a sweet little girl with none of his characteristic strength or personality. The new sister's abilities are the same as any other. Glowy-hand, mind-walking stuff. Homogenization, things becoming the same, the whole point of the B-movie "The Brainwashers Came from Anime Space!" horror take.
I think it'd be far more interesting if the ogre essentially stayed an ogre, and they'd continue to find just as much camaraderie with their own kind as their newfound sisters. Likewise, their Touch or equivalent would be done a more ogre-ish way, maybe involving a test of strength beforehand or something. Kind of an extreme example to cite an ogre in the first place, but you get the idea.

I totally agree on this. Not all Aeternalae are the same, there are good Aeternals, and there are bad. They can't be painted with the same brush. Me, I guess in some ways, I'm sort of the laid back, neutral Aeternal. And that's probably one thing that Nikkou and I have in common. *shrugs, doesn't know if that made sense* ^^;

You call yourself laid back and neutral. I call you "sane". I know that's a bit harsh, but I kinda stand by that. And you're right it'd be more interesting to have more good and bad, but the tone and PoV of the codex really emphasize the invader/homogenizing/destroyer side of them (such as actually naming something like "rescenscion" and making it sound desirable). I'm trying to point out there is a huge difference between how you want to present yourselves and the original/core material, and I more recognize your current vision over what's been written (and bloated to hell with terminology). I kind of implied a desire to do as much when I commented on your DA page.

One difference though from where I stand: I say f***-it, let's not stop with good and bad Aeternals on a 2D sliding scale of alignment. Let's have more variety in general .


====================================

There is an excitement to horror stories. I can reasonably tolerate even the male-eradicating aspect of Eternals when it's presented as a piece of horror fiction, or something like it. It may not be my usual cup of tea, but it doesn't bother me quite so much. I've been participating in an Ovalisk RP because it's kind of like cute-horror, which is fun.

I think it's possible to enjoy something that you don't necessarily agree with normally. For example, if I had the ideas and motivation to do it, I'm sure I could come up with some bunch of evil mass-converting beings who obliterate everything in their path and turn all girls into pretty boys. My "bad side" would enjoy that. Everyone has some evil in them. I mean, I was playing Red Dead Redemption and went around randomly shooting passersby and found it very entertaining. Would I ever do that in reality, or condone someone else doing it? Hell no. Fantasy is fantasy.

Everyone has a side like that. Freud called it the "id", the lizard brain part of us that wants do whatever it wants and to anybody. I think if I was better at writing or communicating clearly back then, I would have portrayed the feminazi aspect as being like the Aeternalae's collective id. I think a lot of arguments would have been over before they had even started.

I guess that's what originally scared me about the whole Eternal thing. It went from being someone's fictional creation to a seriously believed religion. And a religion focused on female superiority, eradication of all men, and total idealization of women bothered me a lot, and to see friends of mine being drawn into it freaked me out. It felt like it went from people enjoying a fantasy to seriously believing in those ideals.

I think many convinced themselves they believed in it. Myself, I was getting a bit drunk with creative power and I actually seriously wished I could force my idea of change on the world because anything would be an improvement over what we have now. That, and you know how people express more extreme versions of what they believe when they feel pressed or boxed in by ideological opponents? That's why I said as many rash things as I did, or even started seriously believing some crazy stuff.

But yeah, there were people like Nikkou who obviously weren't like that, which helped. But when I did try to find out more about what was actually believed, it seemed like I could never get a straight answer, it was different for everyone, so I remained somewhat suspicious.
Well, what I'm hoping is that this can shed some light on how I acted back then, because I know there were times where I seriously flipped sh**. I was scared of my friends being taken from me and turned into a bunch of Feminazis, basically. And, my own gender issues being particularly bad back then, the Eternals felt somehow like an attack on a part of myself and I found the whole concept threatening, thus I tended to get very defensive.

A straight answer... wouldn't that be nice if the original information index was a reliable source of such? I'm pulling for that.

Aeternalae I don't feel were written as having enough of a distinction from human women, and that wasn't anyone's fault but mine. I think if we're talking about physical sex, they're actually generally physically neuter, since traditional sex or intimacy is largely wiped out or replaced with the Aeternalae equivalent. If I wrote them today, they might even have a few token bishies as such because there'd be no good reason for them to be totally absent, since the core race is sex-neutral. I'm sure you make the distinction between human males, even young teenage males, from your bishies right?

If I may level with you Musa, one major reason I insisted on the all-girl theme so hard is because I was just discovering what Rule 34 was, and I wanted to discourage it. Not to mention that I had a crippling fear of it turning into a "harem show" if even just one male character was added into the collective.