The Haven...It lives...it lives!

[Musashi]

Aeternalae I don't feel were written as having enough of a distinction from human women, and that wasn't anyone's fault but mine. I think if we're talking about physical sex, they're actually generally physically neuter, since traditional sex or intimacy is largely wiped out or replaced with the Aeternalae equivalent. If I wrote them today, they might even have a few token bishies as such because there'd be no good reason for them to be totally absent, since the core race is sex-neutral. I'm sure you make the distinction between human males, even young teenage males, from your bishies right?

If I may level with you Musa, one major reason I insisted on the all-girl theme so hard is because I was just discovering what Rule 34 was, and I wanted to discourage it. Not to mention that I had a crippling fear of it turning into a "harem show" if even just one male character was added into the collective.

Oh yeah, definitely. There's some very lovely men in the world, but actual humans and animated humans are not the same thing. The catboy in my avatar is adorable, but I will NEVER see someone, male or female, who looks exactly like that.

You did start adding males in eventually, though. Ewies! :D But they seemed geared more towards yaoi, so it'd be hard to make a harem show out of them.
They need some reworking too, though.

[Mitera Nikkou]

They didn't have enough sparkles. :O

On the subject of sex versus race: I find it easier to say "girl" and "female", so it's easier for other people to understand the basic imagery of the concept, but I identify with something asexual, more or less. It's kind of like how, in cell division, a parent cell can divide into daughter cells, but you know those cells, despite the name, aren't female. Yet, still, it can produce more of itself on its own. I've thought about it, and would like to also ascribe a supernatural/spiritual element to that concept, but I never felt like I deserved anything better than flesh. ;/

[Ninian]

I guess I should peel the tarp just a bit off of Aeaea. It started pretty much with wanting to borrow the idea of Gensokyo, but making it more culture-neutral and staffing it with basically Aeternalae-in-all-but-name. The reason I say Aeternalae-in-all-but-name is because it isn't directly tied to the old tropes. It's just a collection of different immortal spirit girls from different worlds who came together, who share a bond of feminine cute and change. It's not like Gensokyo's immortal spirit girls are strangers to glowy either, they're just used to THROWING it at people ;p

Some major differences between Aeaea's girls and the Aeternalae as written in the codex, though, so them being equated isn't at all final. Nor is this intended to force ideas down the throat of those who like the existing Aeternalae. So pretend I'm talking about Aeternalae -- or not -- as it suits you.

It's very rough, so pardon the dust, I'm actually revealing more than I'm ready to at the moment even.


1. They campaign on each other more than anyone else. You know all of the pointless battles in Touhou? Imagine that as applied to something akin to Aeternalae. Aeaea is like some kind of training or proving ground. I even had a full video game imagined in my head that plays out like two player Plants VS Zombies or even a strategy game. For example, a maid girl and an angel girl battle. The angel comes out on top and temporarily turns the maid into an angel, but styled like a maid. They can transform each other that way even without the battle taking place first. It's all for fun, except during "War Season".

2. There is something akin to Originae that I just call a "Theme Keeper" for now. Though it is an origination of sorts. For example, the first maid to be created in Aeaea would be considered the meido Theme Keeper. Despite the important-sounding title, they aren't always necessarily leaders of their "faction", and their identity is sometimes not even known. Sometimes someone is a Theme Keeper by virtue that nobody else is like them by default.

3. Factions aren't hard-segregated, nor necessarily imply factional loyalty. It'd be very difficult for the above maid examples to get around to serving a lady or mistress if they were forced to always work around their guild halls. During War Season, it's actually more common to rally around a friend's theme than it is to keep your own.

4. The Aeaea inhabitants are generally pretty civil, and citizenship does require an oath to not use their power to hurt people back in their home worlds. The exception is when outsiders come to Aeaea without being given some kind of visitor's license. They are considered trespassing, even if they somehow stumbled into the realm accidentally, and their fate is contingent on who runs into them first. It's considered in the interest of security to give free reign on them.

5. Every so often, usually once a year (or analogue), there is a period of time called "War Season", where the girls all get into a transformative war with each other in an attempt to only have one theme. The legend goes that if the entire realm is united, they can fight their mythical creator goddess. It's possible to opt-out of War Season, but it's considered a bit of a faux pas when one can get out of it simply by not fighting challengers. When the season's time has elapsed (it's usually only about a month or two) all changes the girls made to each other are reset at once.

6. There'll probably be basic mooks that have traits in common with Ovalisks and Touhou's fairies. Having written Kate Icing, her kind were essentially like sci-fi nature spirits to begin with. The rough idea is that people who "fail" their initiation and don't display enough willpower permanently wind up as one of them, as well as it being a sort of temporary punishment TF. Particularly offensive trespassers might be thrown to them as well.

7. Not all Aeaea citizens necessarily choose to spend their lives in the realm, nor have a sense of "sisterhood" with others like them. Many prefer to stay on their own worlds, among their own kind, especially if their own kind are accepting of a young, non-aging non-reproducing member of their society -- and may be more loyal to them. Some only show up for War Season. In general, unlike the Aeternalae in their original form, a sense of sisterhood is not compulsory -- not even with the person who might have initially transformed you. This isn't disregarding the possibility of hugs and sisterhood, but it's not an enforced default.

8. They probably have the same power to overrun and infest other worlds en masse if they really wanted to. However, they'd generally be banished from Aeaea if they did something like that, and thus cutting them off from their immortality and power -- hopefully putting them at the mercy of their victims. That said, it's not ultimately impossible to see a campaign to annex other realms or parts of other realms to Aeaea. Warhawks among the inhabitants might even claim that's why all the practice in the first place. But it'd need to be for a very good reason, with the full knowledge of innocents being harmed, like any other true war. This situation is entirely a theoretical to begin with and it might not ever even be explored in a story.


Phew. So, anyone like? I know it's not all that original yet, but that's why I was hesitant to share -- it's under construction.

[Mitera Nikkou]

It seems alright. Some of it managed to escape my understanding, to some extent, but that's probably because I didn't go to bed last night and I spent most of the day zoning in and out while playing Star Ocean 4. ^^; Thank goodness it was a slow day here...

I have a suggestion, I guess. Being immortal and all, most of them are going to be very experienced at what they do, and have more knowledge and a better understanding of where they live, so perhaps there would be events that would make a fresh, new member game in a contest against the seasoned inhabitants in some way or another. It could also be a way, whole or in part, to "break them in." However, something special does happen, in the unlikely event that the new gal wins.

Sorry I couldn't offer anything else of worth... I probably should have saved my response for after I wake up tomorrow. Z_Z

[Ninian]

I have a suggestion, I guess. Being immortal and all, most of them are going to be very experienced at what they do, and have more knowledge and a better understanding of where they live, so perhaps there would be events that would make a fresh, new member game in a contest against the seasoned inhabitants in some way or another. It could also be a way, whole or in part, to "break them in." However, something special does happen, in the unlikely event that the new gal wins.

You actually read my mind on what the major premise of a video game would be, since it'd need to fit in the framework of a game and the player is essentially a "newcomer". Fun game overs, depending on whom you lose to!

(Of course, this isn't original an idea on my part either -- Touhou's spell card system mirrors that concept for similar reasons you said.)

[Millinescence]

I think a lot of the technical details are fun. This includes Influence and just basically every mechanic involving the Touch. But I feel mystifying details that aren't directly adding to the Aeternalae storyline need to be either rewritten or omitted, as well as weird or abstract concepts that might revulse or confuse. For example, I would probably remove the Alphariginae as a concept straight out. The concept is never explored in a story, and I'm not sure the race is as interested in their own origins as much as others might be. Likewise I might write the Three Realms concept less as hard facts and more like a shared belief Aeternalae have about the outlook of the universe. I'd probably also remove "real" individuals from a required fiction reading list, making them more like userpages -- otherwise people will think the community has no touch (HAH!) on reality whatsoever. I'd probably also remove all reference to "anime", and more strongly imply they're anime girls rather than make an outright distinction.

This list goes on.


Oh, and their name. That's the biggest mystery or misunderstanding of all. Due to how "Ae" as a letter is pronounced -- basically a hard "eee" sound -- I doubt few people even know that the name is a homophone for "eternally". As in, that's how long you're gonna be like that. I probably should have also called Anina "Anaena" or Arivida "Araevida" if I was going to keep with that theme, though it might be a language fetish by that point. As you might guess, Aeaea is also pronounced "ee-ee-ah". Yeah, in case anyone was curious.

Ah, okay...thanks for clearing that up. So remove Alphariginae (done)...We'll need to discuss how to work on the Wiki, what needs removing, what doesn't, that kind of things. Stuff like the Touch and Influence are not only fun mechanics, but essential. You have my official blessings in providing for the Wiki, just so you know. ^_~

As for the Ae, Kerina told me it was said with a hard "Ay" sound, but ehh...*shugs*
And yea "Anaena" and "Araevida" would've been taking thing a bit far, don't you think? xD

A major obstacle for you is that it's like founding a spirituality or outlook based on an alien invader B-movie. Again, the horror angle. It'd be easier to write something from the top with the spiritual feelings or outlooks in mind than it would be to constantly have people on staff 24/7 to make corrections or interpretations to something that's becoming increasingly top-heavy. To drag out ZUN for a minute -- and get used to me doing that a lot in the future, he succeeded with writing a predatory more-than-human all-girl world -- it's part of why Touhou needed a big reboot going into the Windows games, as the characters were too shallow and sinister to actually write a setting (Gensokyo) with them. I'm not saying that's the only reason, I can cite legal stuff too, but I can totally get that from a writing perspective.

I agree, we need to write the Wiki in such a way that it would bring less emphasis on recension and the cuteopalypse (sp?).

If you want another example of how I think the Aeternalae could be better written, I'd have it so the Touch actually changes a lot less about a person than it ever did in any story. I'd argue the less it changes, the more interesting the final product. Let's take an example of how it works right now -- imagine a big bad ogre was Touched. He would probably be reduced into a sweet little girl with none of his characteristic strength or personality. The new sister's abilities are the same as any other. Glowy-hand, mind-walking stuff. Homogenization, things becoming the same, the whole point of the B-movie "The Brainwashers Came from Anime Space!" horror take.
I think it'd be far more interesting if the ogre essentially stayed an ogre, and they'd continue to find just as much camaraderie with their own kind as their newfound sisters. Likewise, their Touch or equivalent would be done a more ogre-ish way, maybe involving a test of strength beforehand or something. Kind of an extreme example to cite an ogre in the first place, but you get the idea.

I say that there should be a compromise made on how the Touch works now, and how you described the "less is more" thing. Although an Aeternal with horns and affinity with Sake wouldn't be bad either x3. Before I give my Aninae the Touch, I would ask them to pick a form/persona and a name that they'd like, thus making it so that they're not all the same.

As for the "It's for realz and it's happen' on mah internet!" thing, I can see the similarity between that and the christian's getting saved. But it's just not something I would want to compare it to, for I think it's more than that. The point is that I think of the Touch more as a special initiation for those that I think are closest to me, not something to just use on the first person who comes along.

You call yourself laid back and neutral. I call you "sane". I know that's a bit harsh, but I kinda stand by that. And you're right it'd be more interesting to have more good and bad, but the tone and PoV of the codex really emphasize the invader/homogenizing/destroyer side of them (such as actually naming something like "rescenscion" and making it sound desirable). I'm trying to point out there is a huge difference between how you want to present yourselves and the original/core material, and I more recognize your current vision over what's been written (and bloated to hell with terminology). I kind of implied a desire to do as much when I commented on your DA page.

One difference though from where I stand: I say f***-it, let's not stop with good and bad Aeternals on a 2D sliding scale of alignment. Let's have more variety in general.

Well, I was just saying that I'm neither good nor bad myself lol. I don't pick a side when it comes to this recension stuff

I guess I should peel the tarp just a bit off of Aeaea. It started pretty much with wanting to borrow the idea of Gensokyo, but making it more culture-neutral and staffing it with basically Aeternalae-in-all-but-name. The reason I say Aeternalae-in-all-but-name is because it isn't directly tied to the old tropes. It's just a collection of different immortal spirit girls from different worlds who came together, who share a bond of feminine cute and change. It's not like Gensokyo's immortal spirit girls are strangers to glowy either, they're just used to THROWING it at people ;p

Some major differences between Aeaea's girls and the Aeternalae as written in the codex, though, so them being equated isn't at all final. Nor is this intended to force ideas down the throat of those who like the existing Aeternalae. So pretend I'm talking about Aeternalae -- or not -- as it suits you.

It's very rough, so pardon the dust, I'm actually revealing more than I'm ready to at the moment even.

So is this how you intend to reconstruct the Aeternalae? You know, that actually sounds interesting. Since I run an Ovalisk RP, I definitely know how they can be used as mooks lol. Part of why I made a lead antagonist for the ningen to deal with.
The Warring Season sounds fun too and would make for some great RP'ing. I don't really know how the other Sisters would think about this though (IM conference?).

[Ninian]

Ah, okay...thanks for clearing that up. So remove Alphariginae (done)...We'll need to discuss how to work on the Wiki, what needs removing, what doesn't, that kind of things. Stuff like the Touch and Influence are not only fun mechanics, but essential. You have my official blessings in providing for the Wiki, just so you know. ^_~

That I've already earned your trust is a big deal. In your shoes I'd be a good deal more wary about this lolita-come-lately suddenly posting in my topic. Thank you very much for your faith, I'll try to make it worth your while.

As for the Ae, Kerina told me it was said with a hard "Ay" sound, but ehh...*shugs*
And yea "Anaena" and "Araevida" would've been taking thing a bit far, don't you think? xD

I might have told her it was "Ay". I know I made that mistake at one point. On that note, the whole "created by the Ae" thing in general is another bit of extraneous information, I think. You're right, it's worth discussing first.

I agree, we need to write the Wiki in such a way that it would bring less emphasis on recension and the cuteopalypse (sp?).

The horror story aspect is still worth exploring in some avenue, as is the sense of impending doom, but there is a time and place for it. Dying them too deep a color on the surface level is biting them hard. I'm glad we agree.

I say that there should be a compromise made on how the Touch works now, and how you described the "less is more" thing. Although an Aeternal with horns and affinity with Sake wouldn't be bad either x3. Before I give my Aninae the Touch, I would ask them to pick a form/persona and a name that they'd like, thus making it so that they're not all the same.

Well, the general idea is that it doesn't always work 100% the same way. But I think it's safe to say that, if done right, it does bring out an individual's true character. You know, just in moé form.

I already do pretty much what you say -- I ask people right away what their ideal selves are. Just usually from day one, not as part of some elaborate ritual, but just as a means of getting to know someone. Different people give different answers, and different people have given it different degrees of thought. It's fascinating to say the least.

As for the "It's for realz and it's happen' on mah internet!" thing, I can see the similarity between that and the christian's getting saved. But it's just not something I would want to compare it to, for I think it's more than that. The point is that I think of the Touch more as a special initiation for those that I think are closest to me, not something to just use on the first person who comes along.

I'm going to continue my stance of not really "recognizing" that practice, even though I have a spirituality of sorts I work by. There are just too many ways it can go wrong. And if we don't mess it up, and the story survives us, who is to say whoever comes after us won't find a way to use it to abuse people? I'm thinking way ahead, obviously, but I don't want to be a vehicle for suffering. All that can be avoided by at least publicly not pretending that Aeternalae are real. Take it as a subculture, take it as a meta RP, take it as an experiment in spirituality, just please don't take it as literally "they'll be here any day!" real.

I'm not saying disregard one's powerful feelings or sense of love, but let reality alone be real. Real is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. We'll most certainly know if something like this became real. If it's "real" in your heart you don't need to advertise it, I tell that to theists almost constantly.

If the community collective doesn't literally believe in it being real, then it's important in the future that this be conveyed a lot more clearly. Outsiders understandably see the community as a bit unhinged.

So is this how you intend to reconstruct the Aeternalae? You know, that actually sounds interesting. Since I run an Ovalisk RP, I definitely know how they can be used as mooks lol. Part of why I made a lead antagonist for the ningen to deal with.

Ningen just means "human", just in Japanese. I made that a term back in the day because it sounded cooler and I didn't realize random Japanese words sound really stiff and weird outside of context. I was only a few steps above your usual "omg kawaii lol" Cartoon Network Narutard. (no offense intended to fans of the show)

But yes, that's how I "would" reconstruct the Aeternalae. I say "would" in quotes because I don't want to get the idea I'm forcing change on a community. That'd be horribly and laughably ironic.

The Warring Season sounds fun too and would make for some great RP'ing. I don't really know how the other Sisters would think about this though (IM conference?).

They change each other even outside of War Season. It's all fun and games. And yes, the idea is for some fun RP and ideally fun games to make based on the idea. It'd be accurate to say that "Fun" is a major goal to bring home, and it fits better with the cradle the subculture began in (the ever silly MSF).

[Xia]

Milli: Eirien hosts the sites

[Stray-chan]

I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I have some thoughts. I'll probably think of more things to say later, too.

So, despite the fact that I've been around MSF for more than year, and been a TF fan for longer, I first really heard anything about Aeternalae a few months ago. Sure, I knew a thing or two about ovalisks from hanging around here, but they're not the same, now, are they?

So here I read about how Aeternals were originally just like ovalisks only slightly older, and my basic reaction is "Wha?" It just fails to make sense. That's not what Aeternals are, in my understanding. They don't do that! They might not even be able to do that, I dunno, but it doesn't seem like their thing. And of course they're not real women; they're transcendent spiritual beings that are simply aspected feminine! Equating them with mundane humans is missing the point of the exercise. So yeah, if they were held up in that sort of light, that would be bad, especially if the forcing TFs part was true.

But as far as I know, they aren't.

To me, the Aeternalae are a spiritual construct I have some level of rapport with. Do they have a "real" existence? Well, maybe, I couldn't tell you for sure. I would say they have at least a sliver, as we have conceived of them and, perhaps, seek to actualize their nature. Some people seem to touch the ideal more closely, so perhaps they have more. I don't know. Metaphysics is hard...

The idea that an Aeternal's Touch necessarily gives a massive and heavily mind affecting change was also a surprise to me. I sort of thought that the changed person had to be willing, at least on some level, and could stop the change if they became uncomfortable. To use the ogre example, I thought of it as becoming cute and sweet... for an ogre. Whatever that means, precisely. Basically, the changes the Touch brings depends on the individual in question, as well as the Aeternal doing it, and their relationship and... all sorts of other little things, really.

So, maybe my perception of the Aeternals is way off? Maybe its close to the modern incarnation? I really don't know. But I do know that I like how I think about them, and I hope the canon doesn't shift too much of it out from under me. That said, Aeaea sounds like an excellent set up and a fun place to be, Ninian, I look forward to hearing more about it!

And in the interests of full disclosure, I got Touched in the very recent past. The result was subtle. Did I have an epiphany and become a different person? No. Do I feel more tranquil, at peace with myself? I think so. Does my shapeshifter's soul have a new, Aeternal facet to it? Absolutely. But I'm still me, in all my complexity.

[Amy-chan]

I also agree with the idea of people becoming their idea selves (even if not in the real world). (By the way, if real is, as Ninian said, what is left when you stop believing in it, then there is a lot more real than most people would believe.)

I never took the "all males are evil/must be turned into females" outside of RP. The part of the Eternals/Aeternalae that attracted me the most was the Family aspect.

I think that having multiple viewpoints on the Aeternalae can help, if done right. And that Ninian, as the originator of the idea (or, if you prefer, the one that brought it into this world), can be very useful, if she wants to be.

The thing we all have to guard against is the Idea of the Aeternalae getting out of control, or somebody that has a special "weakness" to the idea turning it into something that I doubt any of us would like.

[Garath the Shadowshifter]

This topic was always a touchy subject, no pun intended.

I'm sure some of you are groaning at the fact that I'm posting in a thread about Eternals. Fret not, I'm not here to preach or anything. Least I hope it doesn't sound like preaching. It is almost 2AM, so my mind may be a little off right now.

I've been keeping up with this thread via my Wii's internet connection, but haven't posted being that posting using the Wii is way to annoying to do for long.

Not sure what you'd like me to call you Akemi, but I honestly have to say that I think you've matured a lot since I last saw you. I doubt my words mean much to you given our history, but well I still wanted to say that.

The Eternals bothered me for many of the same reasons they bothered people like Musa. So I won't go too much into that.

In the end, it didn't feel like a 'family' to me, but more of a cult. I was always afraid of seeing someone who claimed to be an Eternal try and round up a bunch of it's members to a spot in real life to: "Purge themselves of their mortal bodies"

The thought of someone trying to get people to mass suicide seemed all too real back then. However, I had enough faith in the people of MSF and even Akemi herself that I doubted such a thing would ever really come about.

In the end I think it was the fact that the way Eternals were presented to me, was that if they wanted, or if Akemi wanted they could FORCE me to become something else. I hated that idea, and it's where a LOT of my strife with the Eternals came from.

I have no problem with people seeing such a creature as their ideal self, or using it as a sort of stepping stone, or 'anchor' to help them through their lives and problems. I myself do such a thing with my ShadowShifter persona.

It was when people started thinking that maybe it was all real, or that they'd one day really transform that bothered me. Hey I'd love to awaken as a Shadowshifter very much, but let's just say I ain't holding my breath.

I think as long as people don't start 'counting' on them actually becoming these creatures, everything should be fine. Not saying it's a bad idea to dream of it. I dream of being my Shadowshifter self all the time. But I think it's important to know that it's most likely not going to happen. Which seems to be the attitude now a days.

The really ironic thing about the Eternals though, is despite my constant desire back then to be an enemy to them and Akemi. It's actually them that eventually lead me to realize that my ideal self was a ShadowShifter.

I was so determinded to become something they couldn't touch, that the idea of the shadowshifter just came to me one day. Since then, I've been a lot happier in life, and a lot more relaxed. It did destory any chance of me really 'role-playing' as Garath anymore, but I guess that's the price I pay.

I really feel like I should probably make a post explaining exactly what a ShadowShifter (Or my version anyway) is and why it's a bad idea to RP as one. But I'll be honest when I'm not sure the desire to read that is there.

Anyway, it's late and I'm ranting. Time for bed.

[Ninian]

Garath, if you believe me changed, then I go by "Ninian" these days -- "Nina" as diminutive form. You may call me "Akemi" if you feel the same vibe you used to, but I'd like to think that I'm not that angry and emotionally unstable youth anymore.

I think I actually understand what you're talking about. The whole "becoming defined thanks to antagonism" -- I'd like to think that in a way that's a similar relationship many transgender/transsexual people develop with their own bodies. By knowing and defying society's attempts to make us someone we're not, we wind up clinging closer to what we really are. When I was really into "demons" I had this weird might-makes-right mentality where if you can't prove you deserve to be who you are, I'd have the right to decide for you. That we'd all be better if we were all constantly challenged that way. I want to emphasize though that I don't think this way anymore. Society and its virtues are built on security, and I'm not convinced anarchy has more pros than cons.

I'm not going to comment on the Aeternalae "cult" culture because I largely agree. It terrified me too. The worst part was later learning just what kind of crazy individuals were showing up -- one long gone individual (thank god) was even a trafficker of... well... exploitative photos of children, I'll leave it at that. It was worse than you ever believed, and we're all lucky it fizzled out with nobody getting hurt.


Anyways, I have to confess: I'm not as hard against suicide as you'd probably like. It has something to do with how I'm shaping up. I identify a lot more death-entities like shinigami these days. Playfully, I might even consider the idea you saw that in me all along -- after all, a lot of my favorite TFs read kind of like snuff fiction to begin with. I see death as rather important in our growth. That said, it's not the social stigma. I discourage suicides because most are either done in haste, or done under a delusion -- such as a cult delusion, as you pointed out. If someone is of sound mind, and is convinced they have nothing else to live for is a purely intellectual way, and they really don't -- be it from age, terminal illness, whatever -- and they take proper preparations to minimize the hurt involved in leaving people behind, I can even condone suicide. However, again, most suicides are done in the heat of emotion, and they wind up hurting a lot of people thoughtlessly. And not their enemies either, but their friends and loved ones. In fact, I'd go so far as to argue if anyone deserves a forced "overwrite of self" transformation, it's those sort of suicidees. After all, they threw themselves away, so it's akin to trash collecting as far as I'm concerned.


If we're being open about our past antagonism, let me share too -- I picked fights with you due to a perception that you were testosterone-drunk and a misogynist. As far my "Aeternal" sense went, you might as well have dipped yourself in BBQ sauce and pranced repeatedly across a grill. The "testosterone-drunk" part has to do with your preference for shonen stuff like Dragonball Z, or your talking about seeking true destructive power without even paying attention to scope or scale (mind you, I was guilty of this too!). The misogynist part had to do with what kind of stories or captions you'd write -- boy becomes heterosexual girl, and because girls are weak and can't do anything without a man, she has to find a boyfriend. Like ASAP. Hell, look at the signature you have even right now -- some dude strangling a naked chick (that for all I know is innocent) talking about how he wants the power to erase data. Can you blame me for believing on some level that you hated women or had serious mother issues? Mind you, I'm not saying my perception of you wasn't a caricature but then most hate stems from both sides turning the other into a cartoon to begin with. For what it's worth, nowadays I'd definitely give you the benefit of the doubt by virtue that you're so willing to intellectually discuss things. For one thing, unless I'm grossly mistaken, I don't think bringing up what I just did so candidly is going to blow up in my face. I just wish I was able to do it so directly back then. I'm sorry I turned you into a cartoon and didn't bring up what was bothering me immediately instead of it needing to come out rationally years alter.


I want to give you this though: in general, I see the world as a lot more complicated a place than I did when I originally wrote the Aeternalae. I see people as properly more complicated. I think if there are to be forced changes like the kind you hate, they need to be in very specific instances (such as the suicidee instance above). That the world is complicated isn't a bad thing though. Just the opposite, it's a wonderful thing. There is a lot more character to be had in working with different materials than there is just destroying them and attempting to build over. If I took anything away from Touhou, it's that "diversity is everything even and especially if your world is staffed entirely by girls". Hell, they even have a monstrous shadow-dwelling one. You don't get wonderful diversity from tearing a person's psyche apart from the top down, ever. It just doesn't work anyway, look at Aesop's fable about the Sun and the North Wind.
That said, the lust (in more than one sense of the word!) for my ideal world did override my thinking -- a LOT. I have no excuses to offer for that, I was just simply drunk with a vision. The vision isn't exactly gone, but I'm willing to be a lot more patient in seeing it realized. I also realized that the world's problems got as bad as they did to begin with because of people like me trying to fix things. It's better for me to wash my hands of whatever is happening in this complicated world, not feel guilty about tragedy happening overseas, and put my focus on building my own world.

[Garath the Shadowshifter]

Garath, if you believe me changed, then I go by "Ninian" these days -- "Nina" as diminutive form. You may call me "Akemi" if you feel the same vibe you used to, but I'd like to think that I'm not that angry and emotionally unstable youth anymore.

I'll attempt to call you Nina. Ninian isn't going to stick in my mind sadly. If I do call you Akemi from time to time, try not to mind it. It's simply not that easy for me to suddenly call someone something else so easily. Again given our history, I just kinda got use to knowing you as 'Akemi'.

I think I actually understand what you're talking about. The whole "becoming defined thanks to antagonism" -- I'd like to think that in a way that's a similar relationship many transgender/transsexual people develop with their own bodies. By knowing and defying society's attempts to make us someone we're not, we wind up clinging closer to what we really are. When I was really into "demons" I had this weird might-makes-right mentality where if you can't prove you deserve to be who you are, I'd have the right to decide for you. That we'd all be better if we were all constantly challenged that way. I want to emphasize though that I don't think this way anymore. Society and its virtues are built on security, and I'm not convinced anarchy has more pros than cons.

I'm going to give you the benifit of the doubt that you aren't like that anymore. Please don't hold it against me Nina. But I have to say that I still feel a bit weary around you. I doubt I'll ever be able to really trust you. I think you understand what I mean however.

I'm not going to comment on the Aeternalae "cult" culture because I largely agree. It terrified me too. The worst part was later learning just what kind of crazy individuals were showing up -- one long gone individual (thank god) was even a trafficker of... well... exploitative photos of children, I'll leave it at that. It was worse than you ever believed, and we're all lucky it fizzled out with nobody getting hurt.

This was one of the reasons I always wanted to 'drop' the RP aspects when I spoke to you. I honestly didn't think you realized what you were doing at times with your Aeternalae. I'm sorry you had to deal with someone like that because of where it was leaning.

Anyways, I have to confess: I'm not as hard against suicide as you'd probably like. It has something to do with how I'm shaping up. I identify a lot more death-entities like shinigami these days. Playfully, I might even consider the idea you saw that in me all along -- after all, a lot of my favorite TFs read kind of like snuff fiction to begin with. I see death as rather important in our growth. That said, it's not the social stigma. I discourage suicides because most are either done in haste, or done under a delusion -- such as a cult delusion, as you pointed out. If someone is of sound mind, and is convinced they have nothing else to live for is a purely intellectual way, and they really don't -- be it from age, terminal illness, whatever -- and they take proper preparations to minimize the hurt involved in leaving people behind, I can even condone suicide. However, again, most suicides are done in the heat of emotion, and they wind up hurting a lot of people thoughtlessly. And not their enemies either, but their friends and loved ones. In fact, I'd go so far as to argue if anyone deserves a forced "overwrite of self" transformation, it's those sort of suicidees. After all, they threw themselves away, so it's akin to trash collecting as far as I'm concerned.

I have little to comment. For a long time I felt that if I wanted to end my life, I had every right to. My life is mine to do as I wish. However, I do think that suicide is simply what it is: Giving up. My life sucks sure, but I've kept going despite everything it has thrown at me. I think I'm a better person because of it. I have to admit that I wish I wasn't so use to life dealing me the raw deal though. I'm going to keep my comments on the type of people I think deserve an "overwrite of self" to myself right now. But there are some. I don't think suicidees need it though, but I do believe they need help.

If we're being open about our past antagonism, let me share too -- I picked fights with you due to a perception that you were testosterone-drunk and a misogynist. As far my "Aeternal" sense went, you might as well have dipped yourself in BBQ sauce and pranced repeatedly across a grill. The "testosterone-drunk" part has to do with your preference for shonen stuff like Dragonball Z, or your talking about seeking true destructive power without even paying attention to scope or scale (mind you, I was guilty of this too!). The misogynist part had to do with what kind of stories or captions you'd write -- boy becomes heterosexual girl, and because girls are weak and can't do anything without a man, she has to find a boyfriend. Like ASAP. Hell, look at the signature you have even right now -- some dude strangling a naked chick (that for all I know is innocent) talking about how he wants the power to erase data. Can you blame me for believing on some level that you hated women or had serious mother issues? Mind you, I'm not saying my perception of you wasn't a caricature but then most hate stems from both sides turning the other into a cartoon to begin with. For what it's worth, nowadays I'd definitely give you the benefit of the doubt by virtue that you're so willing to intellectually discuss things. For one thing, unless I'm grossly mistaken, I don't think bringing up what I just did so candidly is going to blow up in my face. I just wish I was able to do it so directly back then. I'm sorry I turned you into a cartoon and didn't bring up what was bothering me immediately instead of it needing to come out rationally years alter.

I might be a bit testosterone drunk. The simple fact is I'm PROUD to be a man. I'm proud to be male. Another one of the many reasons Eternals bothered me. Why should I have to give up being a guy, when I enjoy being one? I shall say right now that if I had the power I would LOVE to give anyone the body they desire, and if they desire to be female I think they have the right to be female. However, I like being a man, so I hated it when Eternals would claim that 'Men were evil' or some nonsense like that. Who are THEY to tell me who I can be?

Admitingly, I mainly want to be a girl just to 'test the waters' so to speak. I believe that being able to live as a fully functional female would teach me so many things. The lure of this knowledge use to drive me crazy back then. However, even if it did become possible for men to change fully into women. I think there are a LOT of people who should be in line before me. Plus I'd have to have a way back. I like who I am very much. This form is mine, and I intend to keep it. Course if I go by my shadowshifter self. That will never be a problem.

As for my lust for 'Destructive Power' That stems from getting my butt kicked constantly as a child. I very much would like to just ki blast those jerks in the face. This is a large part of why Garath is so power hungry. There will always be a part of me that wants to hurt people because I'm tired of them hurting me. Thankfully I'm strong willed enough to NEVER let that happen. It's also why I say that as much as I'd love to really be Garath. I also hope it never happens. I'm not sure I could resist the temptation of the power. Rping and text based stuff though is just that. Imagination so I use it as a vent.

I'm kinda surpised you thought I was misogynist. Though I guess not 'too' surpised. There are a few things in my life that have given me a rather... 'impaired' vision of women at times. It usually only comes out when women act in favor of femininsim. Like I said, I don't enjoy being told me gender is evil.

I think a large part of it stems from that 'She Like's You' Joke that was constantly pulled on me.

When I was younger, while growing up I would have this joke pulled on me CONSTANTLY.

You had to have at least two females to pull it off. It would go like this: One of them would get my attension. Then when I was finally looking at them. The one who flagged me down would point at their friend and say: "She likes you!"
The 'friend' would then go "EWWWWWWWWW" and they'd both laugh at your expense.

When I entered middle school I pretty much accepted that I'd never be on a date, as I was basically 'trash'. I had no car, no money. So I didn't think I'd be 'the pick of the litter'. How foolish I was back then. I really shouldn't have let it bother me as much as I did.

As for mother issues? Yeah, no. My mother was the greatest women I've ever known. The fact that she's gone is something that will never really stop eatting at me. If it wasn't for her, I very well may HAVE grown up hating women.

I apologize for my signiture. I just find Spider Zero cool, and ironicly that's pretty much the best pic there is of him. The girl is innocent. Thankfully she is saved unharmed. Still it gives a pretty good idea of how evil Spider Zero is. Which is kinda what I was going for.

I want to give you this though: in general, I see the world as a lot more complicated a place than I did when I originally wrote the Aeternalae. I see people as properly more complicated. I think if there are to be forced changes like the kind you hate, they need to be in very specific instances (such as the suicidee instance above). That the world is complicated isn't a bad thing though. Just the opposite, it's a wonderful thing. There is a lot more character to be had in working with different materials than there is just destroying them and attempting to build over. If I took anything away from Touhou, it's that "diversity is everything even and especially if your world is staffed entirely by girls". Hell, they even have a monstrous shadow-dwelling one. You don't get wonderful diversity from tearing a person's psyche apart from the top down, ever. It just doesn't work anyway, look at Aesop's fable about the Sun and the North Wind.
That said, the lust (in more than one sense of the word!) for my ideal world did override my thinking -- a LOT. I have no excuses to offer for that, I was just simply drunk with a vision. The vision isn't exactly gone, but I'm willing to be a lot more patient in seeing it realized. I also realized that the world's problems got as bad as they did to begin with because of people like me trying to fix things. It's better for me to wash my hands of whatever is happening in this complicated world, not feel guilty about tragedy happening overseas, and put my focus on building my own world.

Well I'm getting pressed for time so I'll wrap this up. I never really got into Touhou. I've seen a few flashes and stuff, but it never got me interested in checking out more.

As for the link you posted to youtube. I'm more inclinded to watch this anime girl. Who just happens to be my favorite anime girl of all time now. If I was to become a female on the boards NOW, I'd be like her. (I really REALLY wish I could commission a pic of Miyuko in her outfit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xie8eyE ... re=related

If you are ever intersted Nina, I'd love to present you the history of what and who Garath is now. (The character) Though I don't think you'd like what he is all that much.

Sorry it kinda fell apart at the end there, but I have a friend over and he keeps distracting me with conversation.

[Garath the Shadowshifter]

I had wanted to comment on the captions I made but my friend came over like half way through the post. I did say I wanted to finish up the post first but...

Friend: So anyway, I was looking at Spoony's blog and I noticed...

On and on. >_> I almost asked if he understood what "I need to finish this post" means...

I also notice I didn't use the tact I had hoped to use in that above post. >_< Sorry, but it's really disstracting when someone keeps talking to you about stuff while you are trying to type. I had really wanted to just save it for later, but I figured I was almost done... (Plus I HATE starting something and having to stop half way)

Anyway I was pretty much rambling like a mad man there.

I'm sorry I came off as I did in the past. I have many flaws myself. :/ I'm working on them.

As for the captions thing. I never did them with the idea that females needed a boyfriend. Really I just always thought it would be interesting to see a guy become a girl, and yet fall in love with a guy. Could a guy accept being female to the point that they could see themselves in a hetro relationship? Really the idea for whatever reason has always interested me. So it came out in my captions. In the early days I did mainly captions I thought the majority of the TG community would find good, rather then focus on what I'd find more interesting. Okay I have no idea if what I'm trying to say there is at all clear, but I'm too tired from a long day of work to put it in clearer terms. >_<

And... that's all I wrote. If you excuse me I have some dinner to prepare. As well... I'm hungry.